Tuesday, October 16, 2007
Trading against the odds
I think it must be human nature to love the underdog. It seems that it is often human nature to want to invest in the underdog. By that I mean play the low percentage bet or buck the odds. Now if you are in a casino you will get rewarded if the long shot hits with a sizable return on your original bet (not sizable enough for you to make money over the long haul though. Hey they don't build those casinos by letting gamblers win.) Let's take roulette for instance. If you put $5 on 13 and it hits you will be paid 35:1 or $175. Unfortunately there are 38 spots on the wheel so over the long haul you will slowly lose money. Now lets take a look at what's involved when you choose to fight the odds investing. I showed subscribers today that the odds were roughly 4:1 that the rest of the week should be positive. Now if you were in the casino you could expect to get paid at least 3:1 if the long shot hit. That's not the case here. If you do beat the odds and the market goes down there's no guarantee it's going to drop 3 times as much as it would go up. Actually the odds in this situation are skewed the other way. Historically the return has been 3 times higher than the drawdown on options expiration week by going long Wed. thru Fri. Either way the market is rarely going to reward you for playing the long shot. The market is only interested in taking away your money as fast and as unfairly as possible. Fortunately you have the option to be the casino and keep the odds in your favor at all times. Unfortunately because we love the underdog or because the market makes the underdog look so appealing it's quite often hard to make ourselves take the correct trade.
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52 comments:
Beanie,
You might as well quit spamming with your pump and dump scam. I would think the vast majority of the investors here are way to intelligent to fall for it anyway. I'm going to keep deleting these post so don't waste your time. If you want to post trading systems or strategies or economic views fine. But crap like TSSP is a buy is just not going to be allowed. You made a nice little profit on that scam I'm sure.
Wed-Fri *pop*
Off to a good start...
(it's early I know)
B,
Large gap openings rarely close higher than the open. If we can hold the gains past 10:30 the odds of the market keeping these gains will improve.
I know that I probably won't have SS when I retire, but come on, how unfair is this and you can't tell me that there is no inflation.
Social Security benefits to rise 2.3%
M-
Looks like the powers that be are managing to take down gold on a day when the dollar is very weak. Looks like they tried to take oil down at the same time. However oil is a much bigger market than gold. It appears that oil doesn't want to be manipulated.
Often investment houses and Hedge Funds are forced to take risk off the table when a geopolitical events emerge (like the Turkey/Iraq thing) or a commodity price starts to spike.
Recall what happened to oil and gold and oil and gold stocks when Israel attacked Lebanon last year.
If the Turkey/Iraq stuff is a lot of hot air - we will probalbly bounce back IMO.
Also some may want to "even up" before the G7 meeting this weekend.
I complimented Document on his $SILVER chart comment from the last thread. I hope everyone had a chance to note it.
Talk about a "pattern trade."
Can Gary post this silver chart please?
Late Nov and Dec - usually kind to Silver and Gold - isn't it?
Oct -> not always kind to stocks though.
But maybe Oil will behave now the rest of Oct and give stocks a break???
btw silver holding its ground better than gold today for the first day in 3
This week seems to be testing the bullish opex week stats. Market sure acting like some trapped length from above.
BH
SPY is almost @ a VTO trade
M-
C C Covering some here at 1527...
I'm often early...
Gary, thanks for the tip about large gap openings. Learn something new every day...
Records Show U.S. Gold is Mobilized to Suppress Gold Price, GATA Says:
http://www.pr-inside.com/records-show-u-s-gold-is-mobilized-r250629.htm
LOL
Well jfs I think they may have to lend out even more - they haven't done a very good job of suppressing POG so far - unless they are just getting ready to start.
Was that GS closing out some of their long on TOCOM yesterday??
---
Hey Mr T
Was that enough fear today for your indicators?
It was a little too complacent for me the last few days.
Trade,
GS it would certainly look that way.
Suppressing Gold price: My guess CB's are just getting prepared. I think they are watching the Euro. If it starts to approach 1.45 then they will have to unleash a ton of gold selling to get any type of control on currency situation.
BTW: Did you happen to notice the Sensex on Wednesday. At one point was down 9%+ trading halted for one hour. BSE finished down 1.76%. Hardly, even mentioned in any of the news.
Yup emerging markets acting like Nasdaq 99-2000
Mr T
Did you get in on FXI?
If you sneezed maybe you missed it!
LOL
I'll go to US next month, so I'd rather prefer a very low dollar to expend big way. ;-)
Bean, when i find you , im gonna thank you in person, for that piece of shit tssp tip, sleep with one eye open , mthrfckr.
Come on now. Anyone who buys into Beanie's pump and dump scams has no one to blame except themselves.
Gary,
The Oleman archive talks about large gaps that until 10:30am almost always continue higher. I don't remember if this was also talked about in Trader Vic. Let me know what source you got that pattern from because I have been trading it for a long time. We think a like.
F.
I seem to remember something in trader Vic about gaps. I'll have to dig out my copy and go over it again. I'll find it tonight and post it tomorrow for you.
Trade,
check this site out. HSI very cool.
http://www.hsi.com.hk/family/indexfamily_e.html
Have you seen the run up of FXI?. Impressive. It crossed yesterday the upper Bollinger band, thus it'll be funny to see what happens with FXI today.
The IMF said yesterday that the dollar is still overvalued. It's down big again today. Let's see if the powers that be can sell enough gold to keep the price suppressed again today.
jfs
Thanks... and of course all I see are up arrows on the site LOL
Though it was a shock to see Shanghai down this morning - horror of horrors...
If you have any other interesting links you follow... please post...
thx
--
I guess the currencies are making one last move before the G7 meeting.
I really suggest you folks get out of commodities. This is the beginning of the end...is my opinion. They are overbought and the technicals moving down.
With the dollar making new lows. The fundamentals that started the dollars decline still in place and maybe even stronger since it looks like the chances of another Fed cut are magically improving right before the next meeting. I'm just wondering what in your opinion has changed in the overall secular trend to warrant abandoning the bull market at this point. If energy continues to spike then I might see a deflationary scenario as the world economy gets strangled by the energy shock. We are getting close to the 100% level in a year but not there yet.
Maybe like a broken clock some traders like to repeat the same things over and over thinking they can influence the market - and then rejoice that one time when their broken clock matches the actual time of day.
I wish I was powerful enough to make commodities go down by spamming over and over - I could be rich.
Commods could go down if Oil takes a dive on the resolution to the recent political problems - as all the longs would be trapped.
Maybe the recent rise in commods has nothing to do with fundamentals at all? And like Gary says it is just the dollar.
Wouldn't it be funny if Ben B pulls another fast one and takes some action tomorrow on options day?
Either way those money centre banks are in a bit of trouble and need to make their money back - either by dropping the market or by running it up. Or just making it go wildly up and done. IMO they need volatility - otherwise they are just sitting on some losses.
Commodities are going for the blowoff top.
YOU FOLKS HAVE TO STAY ALERT AND BE CAREFUL. PLEASE GET OUT OF MARGIN. YOU ARE NOW A TEENAGE NERD WHO IS WALKING TO SCHOOL ON YOUR OWN. YOU LOOK LEFT AND YOU LOOK RIGHT. YOU JUST HAVE AN EERIE FEELING THAT SOME BULLY IS GONNA SMACK YOU FROM BEHIND. YOU DON'T SEE ANYONE BUT YOU FEEL HE'S COMING.....
Just to be clear I don't think for a minute that the commodity bull is only about a weak dollar. There is definitely a supply and demand imbalance. The weak dollar is just exacerbating the problem. Commodities are rising in all currencies.
Beanie,
Seriously that's your fundamental reason for why the commodity bull is finished.. a high school story?
Gary,
Responding to beanie only encourages him. He's already shown his hand by pumping penny solars and by demonstrating a non-understanding of demand for commodities. After many, many posts, it's clear he adds nothing to this forum. He deserves nothing.
May i interest you in some FCX nov 90 puts at around .80?
Hi everyone,
I just saw this simple (the good) trend following system that might be good to complement the arsenal when COT is up.
Trade long only
Buy when price hits a 55-day high
Sell when price hits a trailing stop of 4 x ATR(20).
Position size of 10 percent
http://tradinggoddess.blogspot.com/2007/10/55-day-breakout-system-results.html
accordint to the backtest the winning percentage is 50%. In the virtual world 'looks' better than buy-and-hold the Q's.
http://bp3.blogger.com/_-YWCgDK_Px4/RxV2uwcVpkI/AAAAAAAABG0/S6uUJIZAEgE/s1600-h/55.png
Any comment/thought on it?. It just caught my attention because is simple. Thx.
M,
I think you're right :)
S,
I'd have to actually test it. A positive expectnacy of 50% is quite inferior to the 75% from the COT though. I don't see to much reason to convert to a system with a smaller expectancy unless the winners are consistently much much larger.
Gary,
sorry, I think I didn't explain myself well. The idea of using this trend following system is not to replace COT. That does not make any sense.
If the system is really good (which I don't know) the idea is to use it as long as the COT is bullish, as a way of enhancing results without leverage and much hassle.
So, my basic question is whether you think it's worthwhile digging into it.
If you could take a quick look at the article and leave your thoughts would be very helpful.
Thx.
S,
I'll take a look at it later this afternoon. The one part of the COT system that I've found lacking is short signals. They are almost always early. If the system you refrenced here has a great exit strategy for when the COT turns negative then it might very well be a good compliment to the COT's.
banks and housing are so close to the bottom,
that might mean something...
Zee
Zee -- checkout NCC at a 7% yield.
Yes, you read that right. Banks yielding higher than REITs.
Oh yeah, and cats sleeping with dogs.
F-trader,
I checked out Trader Vic and he says that the odds are about 90-95% that a large gap will get filled in the first 15-20 minutes of trading. If it doesn't fill quickly then the chances are much better that the market will close in the direction of the gap. If it does fill the chances are that it will fade the opening gap into the close.
The other gap rule is that when you have a gap above or below the trendline, it signals an important change (fundamental/or news) and points to a trend change.
EWBC hot ca bank, asians / japanese
34.5= good support
qqqq will be $58 in dec
NOV 135 call NMX is sure active...2.20 at 123 , 2.90 at 126..
PCAR rsi 34, at 30.9 rsi im in
DNA short term high = 76 at 73 now..rsi 32, will wait one more day and buy the NOV 70 / 75 calls
S,
It appears similar to using a parabolic stop indicator (PSAR) This might be workable when the COT gives a short signal. I'm not sure it would improve results if used during long signals or not. It's possible that it would create to many losses and end up detracting from the COT system. I guess I'd have to test it for 10 years or so.
After many years of trying to improve the COT's I've finally convinced myself that it's a waste of time. Sure maybe if I looked hard and long enough I might come up with something but I seriously doubt it. The only modification that did produce a sizeable improvement was to use a leveraged ETF (QLD or SSO) when the COT gives a long and the market is above the 200 DMA or vice versa for short signals. Of course you increase risk with this strategy so that's something each investor has to decide for themselves.
This certainly is one 'teflon' market.
Oil $90, 4 years of war, so called credit crises, runs on banks, declining earnings in financial co's, stocks that lose money (EBAY) and get bid up afterhours, stocks trading at 15 times sales (ISRG RIMM etc..) still being upgraded and drawing in buyers.
China in a bubble - and everyone says it is in a bubble - and still want in. Usually when there is a bubble people don't recognize it as such.
Are there any bears left??
Well there won't be if they keep
Printing money like there is no tomorrow!
Gary said
'After many years of trying to improve the COT's I've finally convinced myself that it's a waste of time.'
Gary - if it ain't broke - don't fix it!!
Gary
I would be interested to hear again your thoughts regarding the link between recessions and the doubling of oil prices.
What data was this based on?
And according to this idea - would oil merely have to nominally double by say spiking - or would it have to stay sustainted at the doubled price to create possible recessions.
Also not the effect of rising oil prices be tempered due to the fact that the rising demand is from emerging countries - and their currencies are rising?
thx
YOU HAPPENED TO JUST PASS BY ANOTHER SCHOOL AND YOU SEE SEVERAL CHEERLEADERS HOLDING FIVE LETTERS. GIVE ME A 'B', SAYS ONE.
GIVE ME An 'A', SAYS THE SECOND.
GIVE ME A 'N', SAYS THE THIRD.
GIVE ME A 'K', SAYS THE FOURTH.
And finally,
GIVE ME An 'S' SAYS THE LAST.
FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON, AS YOU WALK PASS BY THE SCHOOL YOU CAN'T HELP BUT FEEL NUMB AS YOU CONTINUE YOUR PATH HOME....
(continued tomorrow)
I'm on pins and needles with anticipation.
At least someone in this sexy blog with me: http://tradinggoddess.blogspot.com/
You see how vertical oil is headed compared to previous runups?
Can you say ,"I am almost climaxed!"
Trade,
That was my conclusion also if it ain't broke don't fix it. I'm going to do a post on the link between energy spikes and recession now that you got me thinking about it.
Thats what they said about the Nasdaq in Dec. 99 also but that wasn't quite the end of it now was it. It wouldn't hurt to let it finish the run before you call the top.
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